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Who Is a Jew?
by Gilad Atzmon
The question of "who is a Jew?" has been debated in Israel since it attained statehood. In the Jewish state† the authorities,† Rabbis and the media would dig into one’s bloodline with no shame whatsoever. For the Israelis and orthodox Jews, Jewishness is obviously a blood related concept.
by Gilad Atzmon
The question of "who is a Jew?" has been debated in Israel since it attained statehood. In the Jewish state† the authorities,† Rabbis and the media would dig into one’s bloodline with no shame whatsoever. For the Israelis and orthodox Jews, Jewishness is obviously a blood related concept. However, Jewishness and blood concerns are becoming a subject of a growing debate in the UK. In the last few days The Daily Telegraph and The Guardian are trying†to decide whether Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a ‘self hating Jew’ or just an ordinary antisemite.
Like the Israeli Rabbis they both dig into his bloodline.
Ahmadinejad is revealed to have a ‘Jewish past’ said the Daily Telegraph on Saturday.† According to the paper, a photograph of the Iranian president holding up his identity card during elections in March 2008 “clearly” suggests that his family had Jewish roots.
The Telegraph even found the ‘experts’ who†suggested that “Mr Ahmadinejad's track record for hate-filled attacks on Jews could be an overcompensation to hide his past.” Needless to say that Ahmadinejad has never come on record with a single anti-Jewish ‘hate- filled’ attack as the Telegraph suggests. He is indeed extremely critical of the Jewish state and its raison d'etre. He is also highly critical of the crude and manipulative mobilisation of the holocaust at the expense of the Palestinian people.
One may wonder how come a Western media outlet happens to selectively engage with issues to do with the racial or ethnic origin of the Iranian president. At the end of the day, digging into peoples ethnic past and family bloodline is not a common practice you†expect from the Western†press. It is something you tend to leave for racists, Nazis and Rabbis. For one reason or another, no one in the so called free press tried to dwell on the close†ties between multi billion swindler Bernie Maddof and his tribe. The Free Press saved itself also from dealing with Wolfowitz’s ethnicity, in spite of the fact that the Zionist†war he brought on us has cost 1.5†million lives by now. If you wonder how it is that the Western free†media is reverting to ‘pathology’ in order to deal with a Muslim†president, the answer is simple not to say trivial:
The so called ‘liberal West’ is yet to find the answers to President Ahmadinejad within the realm of reason. It lacks the argumentative capacity to address Ahmadinejad. Instead, it insists to spin banal racially orientated ideas that cannot hold water, "By making anti-Israeli statements” says The Daily Telegraph,†“he is trying to shed any suspicions about his Jewish connections.” The truth of the matter is clear. Ahmadinejad has already managed to re-direct†a floodlight of reasoning and skepticism just to†enlighten our darkest corner of hypocrisy. He somehow manages to remind us all what thinking is all about.†
It is pretty much impossible to deny the fact that Ahmadinejad’s take on the holocaust and Israel is†coherent, consistent and valid. He seems to have three main issues with the narrative:
1.††† Around sixty†Million died in WWII, the vast majority of them were innocent civilians. How is it, asks Ahmadinejad, that we insist to concentrate on the particularity of the suffering of one ‘very’ specific group of people i.e. the Jews?
2.††† The Iranian president rightly†maintains that this historical chapter must be historically examined. This would mean as well that every event in the past should be subject to scrutiny, elaboration and revision. “If we allow ourselves to question God and the Prophets, we may as well allow ourselves to question the holocaust.”
3.††† Regardless of the truthfulness of the holocaust, it is not a trivial fact that the suffering of the Jews in Europe had nothing to do with the Palestinian people. Hence, there is no reason for the Palestinians to pay for crimes committed by others. If some Western Leaders feel guilty for†crimes†committed against the Jews by their ancestors, which they seem to claim, they better allocate some land for the Jews within their territories rather than expect the Palestinians to keep upholding the Zionist murderous burden.
As much as it is obviously clear that the above points raised by Ahmadinejad are totally valid, it is also painfully transparent that the West lacks the means to address those issues. Instead we seem to revert to supremacy and pseudo scientific discourse dwelling on blood, pathology and lame psychoanalysis.†
†As embarrassing as it may seem, in just three moves Ahmadinejad manages to expose the current deceptive Western mode of discussion. He, in fact identifies†the†holocaust as the core of our hypocritical stand, a tendency that has managed to shatter our ethical judgment. The holocaust was there to divert the attention from the colossal crimes committed by the allies: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden are just†brief examples of institutionalised genocide at the hands of the English Speaking Empire. The holocaust has successfully matured into a new religion. Yet, it lacks theology.†
It doesn’t allow any form of criticism or reformism. It is in fact an anti-Western religion inspired by hate and vengeance. It is dark, it is†blind and it lacks mercy and compassion. It is a faith that declares an†assault on any form of doubt.†It is a crude brutal belief system that stands in opposition to the notions of liberty and goodness.†As if this is not enough, those who subscribe to this religion are complicit in an ongoing assault against grace and peace.†
As things stand at the moment, The British media is yet to decide whether Ahmadinejad is a ‘Jew rebel’ or just a ‘Meshugena Goy’. The Guardian was very quick to publish its own take on the subject refuting the†Telegraph’s account. However, one thing is clear, neither the Guardian nor the Telegraph or any other so called ‘free media’ outlets are free enough to address the questions raised†by Ahmadinejad. 1. Why only the Jews? 2. Why do you all say NO to scrutinizing the past? 3.
Why do the Palestinians have to pay the price?†Instead of engaging in these crucial†elementary questions. The British main papers succumb to racially orientated bloodline digging.
†Rather than following the banal Zionist query†‘who is a Jew?’† I suggest that we take the discourse one step further and ask a very simple question: What Jewishness stands for?
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Atzmon means lonely - as in "by one's self" , Lowly rated comment [Show]
written by Bill, October 06, 2009
Your last paragraph, Mr. King, can be refuted by the Israeli historians Benny Morris in Righteous Victims and Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, both relying on Jewish archives from the 1930s-1940s. What they report is corroborated by the classified documents of Sir Richard Catling of the Mandate Police during that same time period, documents that are not reported in the Introduction of a new book due out in the spring, an introduction that I wrote. In short, the Jews, by their own testimony in seized documents, fielded between 20,000 and 80,000 well trained troops against a completely anemic Arab force when the Jews launched a massive eradication of the native peoples between November of 1947 and May of 1948. And they did not stop there. They razed over 418 towns and villages and massacred thousands. Approximately 700,000 to 800,000 were driven from their homes and not by Arab warnings that they should leave but by a comprehensive and systematic military operation that squeezed the villages on three sides and drove the people out; those that did not leave were killed. The "ragtag" army of Jews pitted against the Arab forces is a myth. The British had destroyed the Arab forces in 1936. The Zionists run by the "Consultancy" never intended to live in peace with their neighbors. They terrorized the Mandate forces because they tried to adhere to the true restrictions in the Balfour Declaration making war against the British people in the most brutal of ways; thus does one people repay the other for providing them with a land where they could establish a "homeland" not a nation. Do not buy the lies; investigate the truth.
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written by L. King, October 06, 2009
Are your reading skills that poor? I stated that the Jews defended themselves without American or European assistance.
Were they better trained than the Arabs? Possibly, but they were motivated by Arab threats of extermination whereas the Arabs were motivated by promises of an easy victory and booty. The Jews were under equipped as well having been embargoed by the British. They lost more battles than they won and lost the significant Jewish quarter of Jerusalem.
The Arab military problem was lack of co-ordination and logistics. Pappe's history is crap (see Ephraim Karsh "Fabricating Israeli History: The New Historians"), his "Consultancy" theory as bogus as his charge of Israeli collaboration with King Abdullah - there was 1 meeting with Golda Meir and nothing came of it. Morris gets misquoted a lot - he's starting to complain about this.
When the war was over there were over 100,000 Arabs living in the Jewish State - and no Jews left on the Arab held section of the Mandate - so it seems the Arab goals are much clearer. Additionally Arab countries conspired to pass laws disenfranchising and dispossessing their Jews of property and the right to obtain work.
Look, I doubt we're going to stand around rehashing every argument of the last 60 years, Bill, especially since you seem to be a hack writer for the vanity press Counterpunch. The charge that Palestinians are "paying the price for the Holocaust" is being made by Mr Gilad "Lonely" for propaganda purposes. Not only were Palestinians involved in the Holocaust through the Mufti who called on Hitler to bomb Tel Aviv (he did), they failed to come to the defense of their Jewish neighbours who were threatened with extinction. That later fact is highly significant and indicates some degree of culpability that neither of you is willing to face. Were the Palestinians paying the price for the Holocaust when they murdered 11 Israeli Athletes in Munich or hijacked an airliner to Entebbe or murdered US diplomats Cleo Noel and George Moore? Were they paying the price of the Holocaust when Arafat embezzled more than a billion dollars of Palestinian aid or when Hamas launched thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians?
Atzmon presents a false bill of exchange. He should be called out for it.
Were they better trained than the Arabs? Possibly, but they were motivated by Arab threats of extermination whereas the Arabs were motivated by promises of an easy victory and booty. The Jews were under equipped as well having been embargoed by the British. They lost more battles than they won and lost the significant Jewish quarter of Jerusalem.
The Arab military problem was lack of co-ordination and logistics. Pappe's history is crap (see Ephraim Karsh "Fabricating Israeli History: The New Historians"), his "Consultancy" theory as bogus as his charge of Israeli collaboration with King Abdullah - there was 1 meeting with Golda Meir and nothing came of it. Morris gets misquoted a lot - he's starting to complain about this.
When the war was over there were over 100,000 Arabs living in the Jewish State - and no Jews left on the Arab held section of the Mandate - so it seems the Arab goals are much clearer. Additionally Arab countries conspired to pass laws disenfranchising and dispossessing their Jews of property and the right to obtain work.
Look, I doubt we're going to stand around rehashing every argument of the last 60 years, Bill, especially since you seem to be a hack writer for the vanity press Counterpunch. The charge that Palestinians are "paying the price for the Holocaust" is being made by Mr Gilad "Lonely" for propaganda purposes. Not only were Palestinians involved in the Holocaust through the Mufti who called on Hitler to bomb Tel Aviv (he did), they failed to come to the defense of their Jewish neighbours who were threatened with extinction. That later fact is highly significant and indicates some degree of culpability that neither of you is willing to face. Were the Palestinians paying the price for the Holocaust when they murdered 11 Israeli Athletes in Munich or hijacked an airliner to Entebbe or murdered US diplomats Cleo Noel and George Moore? Were they paying the price of the Holocaust when Arafat embezzled more than a billion dollars of Palestinian aid or when Hamas launched thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians?
Atzmon presents a false bill of exchange. He should be called out for it.
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written by Logic, October 07, 2009
"And what if they received billions of American dollars and weapons every year; what could they do with that? Take back their sandwich maybe? - ed"
They received billions of dollars not from America itself, but from people who believe in the country, many of whom live in America. The Palestinians also get donations from other countries. Perhaps they should do something with it to better themselves.
[And they don't use it to buy weapons? How many billions do you suppose they receive? Israel gets more than 2.5 billion dollars, plus weaponry.]
"And if your "community" happens to be surrounded by barbarians who control all access, and whenever you manage to build something they come and tear it down, tough for you, cry babies. -ed"
It wasn't always the case. The Palestinians had complete control of their territory for decades. But what did they do with it?
[Well, they are under siege today, and have been occupied by a hostile military entity for decades.]
Did they build a state that contributed great technological advancements to the world? Did they set up an organization that is one of the first on scene in any nation in the world that is hit by natural disasters? Did they build up the region and turn it from desert to farmlands? Did they make huge advancements in desalination?
[Water is an interesting point: Israel controls the flow of water into Gaza, and diverts the majority of it to fruit and vegetable farmers. They may have greened part of a desert to do this, but like the Californians, neither this nor desalination will keep them green for long. Meanwhile the people of Gaza go without.]
No, they harboured people who believe that killing civilians (and themselves in the process) is something that is good!
Who did Israel harbour? Avigdor Lieberman. He just believes killing everyone not from his tribe is a good thing.]
The only solution to the problem is when the *people* of Palestine say no to such barbarism.
[That would be a final solution no doubt.]
When every person in both Israel and Palestine says, "I am building a life here. Not death. You will not strike out at someone that will bring retribution to me in my home."
"Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity." [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]
The Palestinians need to put value on *life*.
[Do you believe the people of Palestine don't value their lives? What do you think they are, crocodiles, or cockroaches as your precious political leaders refer to them?]
What is Israel willing to give up for a single prisoner of war? Or just for their remains? If each Palestinian put that much weight on every single life and not only didn't homicide bomb, but *denounced those who do*, peace could finally be achieved and quickly.
I sincerely hope that the relative peace that has occurred in the Gaza Strip can be extended and I am extremely disheartened that an easement of the blockade hasn't yet occurred.
[Relative peace? Not so far from Tacitus after all these years, eh. "They would make a desert and call it peace."]
I hope that when the Palestinians are again given their next chance with more autonomy, they can show that more death to Israelis is not the result.
[To answer the question you posed to me in another, unpublished post: No, I will not refrain from putting rejoinders within the body of your comments. As managing editor of this site, that is a privilege I reserve. ed]
They received billions of dollars not from America itself, but from people who believe in the country, many of whom live in America. The Palestinians also get donations from other countries. Perhaps they should do something with it to better themselves.
[And they don't use it to buy weapons? How many billions do you suppose they receive? Israel gets more than 2.5 billion dollars, plus weaponry.]
"And if your "community" happens to be surrounded by barbarians who control all access, and whenever you manage to build something they come and tear it down, tough for you, cry babies. -ed"
It wasn't always the case. The Palestinians had complete control of their territory for decades. But what did they do with it?
[Well, they are under siege today, and have been occupied by a hostile military entity for decades.]
Did they build a state that contributed great technological advancements to the world? Did they set up an organization that is one of the first on scene in any nation in the world that is hit by natural disasters? Did they build up the region and turn it from desert to farmlands? Did they make huge advancements in desalination?
[Water is an interesting point: Israel controls the flow of water into Gaza, and diverts the majority of it to fruit and vegetable farmers. They may have greened part of a desert to do this, but like the Californians, neither this nor desalination will keep them green for long. Meanwhile the people of Gaza go without.]
No, they harboured people who believe that killing civilians (and themselves in the process) is something that is good!
Who did Israel harbour? Avigdor Lieberman. He just believes killing everyone not from his tribe is a good thing.]
The only solution to the problem is when the *people* of Palestine say no to such barbarism.
[That would be a final solution no doubt.]
When every person in both Israel and Palestine says, "I am building a life here. Not death. You will not strike out at someone that will bring retribution to me in my home."
"Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause, surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity." [Sura Al Ma'aidah: Ayah 32]
The Palestinians need to put value on *life*.
[Do you believe the people of Palestine don't value their lives? What do you think they are, crocodiles, or cockroaches as your precious political leaders refer to them?]
What is Israel willing to give up for a single prisoner of war? Or just for their remains? If each Palestinian put that much weight on every single life and not only didn't homicide bomb, but *denounced those who do*, peace could finally be achieved and quickly.
I sincerely hope that the relative peace that has occurred in the Gaza Strip can be extended and I am extremely disheartened that an easement of the blockade hasn't yet occurred.
[Relative peace? Not so far from Tacitus after all these years, eh. "They would make a desert and call it peace."]
I hope that when the Palestinians are again given their next chance with more autonomy, they can show that more death to Israelis is not the result.
[To answer the question you posed to me in another, unpublished post: No, I will not refrain from putting rejoinders within the body of your comments. As managing editor of this site, that is a privilege I reserve. ed]
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Because that "'very' specific group of people i.e. the Jews" was 'very' specifically targeted. Germany did not specifically target Russia or France or any other nation where many of the deaths occurred for ideological reasons. But they did target the Jews (and the Gypsies and the gays).
"2. The Iranian president rightly maintains that this historical chapter must be historically examined."
There is a plethora of documents detailing what was done to whom. The Germans were very good at keeping records. If only those who deny the holocaust (or the extent of the holocaust) would actually look at those documents, this issue could end very quickly.
"This would mean as well that every event in the past should be subject to ... revision."
Yes, I am sure that there are many who would like to revise the past. Since it does not fit with Ahmadinejad's agenda, I can see very clearly why he would want to say that the past did not happen, but something else happened.
"3. ...If some Western Leaders feel guilty for†crimes†committed against the Jews by their ancestors, which they seem to claim, they better allocate some land for the Jews within their territories..."
They did. Palestine was their territory. They gave it for a homeland to the Jews. If the people who lived there didn't like it, then they could have waged a war to try to keep it. Oh, wait, they did! And they lost. And then they tried again. And they lost again. And now they are trying to say, "I know we lost the war, but the land should still be ours. I know we initiated the war, but I don't like the outcome, so let's just say it never happened and give me back the land I lost."
[Palestine was Europe's territory? Talk about revising history. -ed]
If I pick a fight with someone over, say, a sandwich and lose the fight, I lose my right to that sandwich.
[Yeah, and Columbus and the Catholic church believed "America" was their promised land, (otherwise they wouldn't have "found" it, right!?)and they had several wars with the "indians" and yet they still complain. I think reservations should be updated to include Gaza-style walls and the occasional air raid too. Works for Israel.Now there's a sandwich for you. -ed]
The number of Palestinians ejected from Israel is approximately the same number of Jews ejected from surrounding Arab lands when Israel was formed. What have those Jews done in Israel compared to what the Palestinians have done in their areas? What if those Palestinians had picked up with their lives and done good for themselves these past 60 years? Yes, 60 years. What if the Palestinians had worked as hard as the Israelis in the West Bank and had the kind of economy that Israel has?
[And what if they received billions of American dollars and weapons every year; what could they do with that? Take back their sandwich maybe? - ed]
If you don't like your station in life, then work for a better one. But more importantly, if you don't like your community's station in life, work with your community for a better one.
[And if your "community" happens to be surrounded by barbarians who control all access, and whenever you manage to build something they come and tear it down, tough for you, cry babies. -ed]